So frustrated right now

congratulations, your bait has reeled me in.

if you liked him so much then why didnt you stop being such a BITCH and tell him as much yourself instead of playing such retarded games? I'm giving you this advice because i'm the least sexist person ever and this is exactly the advice a man would get in your situation.

i would simply just kill the mutual friend who told you he didnt like you

Playing games?

Women are not expected to be the ones to ask guys out, it generally goes the other way around. I'd previously been literally bullied for asking boys out, I'd had boys assume it meant I was desperate, or say they felt emasculated, or say it meant I was a slut who would do anything for them

And my "playing games" was just to have my friend basically ask him out for me on my behalf, it was still basically me taking initiative. I get that sometimes women do stupid shit that they think is "dropping hints" when it's not clear at all, but in this case it was extremely clear still

Why? He's the one who told the mutual friend that he didn't like me like that and that he just wanted to be friends

(Idk if I was confusing or something, the friend who later told me he was in love with me for years was a different friend. It wasn't like "friend 1", who I had ask him to ask me out, knew he liked me but told me he didn't like me)

Women are not expected to be the ones to ask guys out, it generally goes the other way around

Then enjoy another decade of failed relationships.

oh no, did you have a bad experience asking someone out and get your fee fees hurt??? MAN up you little BITCH. Rejection is a part of LIFE. YOU HAVE TO PUT YOUR DIGNITY ON THE LINE AND DO HUMILIATION RITUALS WHILE THE OPPOSITE SEX TWIDDLES THEIR THUMBS.

I've since asked men out, but I was in fucking ninth grade and had very recently had bad experiences with being asked out. And what difference would it have even made? He wouldn't have said yes if I asked him out myself rather than via a shared friend, when I reached out to him recently about this stuff after hearing about it from my other friend, his initial response was profuse apology and insisting that he really did value me as a friend even though he liked me in a romantic way too, that he only told the friend because he felt bad keeping it a secret and having nobody to talk to about it but that he would have never ever sought out a relationship with me because he felt like that would "betray our friendship".

If you weren't there for him at his worst, you don't deserve him at his best.

He didn't give me much indication that he wanted me there,

He wouldn't have said yes if I asked him out myself rather than via a shared friend

no, retard. the whole "oh i don't want to betray our friendship" thing is just a front that he used based on years of being gaslighted by gynocentric society that he should feel bad about having romantic feelings for women who just want him as a friend. Because if he had been upfront about his feelings and you DIDN'T like him back, you probably would have posted somewhere about how "OMG men don't want to be friends with women they all just want to get in our collective pants!!!!!". He was just being cautious because we have to be, because women will complain about what a creep you are if they don't like you, but will complain about how passive you are if they do like you. He gambled on a 50/50 and made the wrong bet. He wouldn't have had to make a bet at all, however, if you weren't so content to perpetuate unfair gender standards by thinking women shouldn't have to ask men out.

I'm so confused. You didn't save yourself for him and he doesn't want sloppy seconds? Why did he reject you again?

This. So much this. Especially with social media being female dominated, you cannot afford to risk anything as a man. There are group chats of girls where they talk about all the men in their town to share their experiences with them. It's terrifying to be near any woman in this current day and age.

KEK this is very true but it's mostly for the shitty guys (that they're all fucking anyway lmao) my mom has told me about a few facebook groups of women use to see if they're dating the same guy and share info on scummy guys (that they fuck anyway lol).

that they fuck anyway lol

That's the worst part. They think it's some kind of own to him that they know, like they are "using" him. There are no punishments for women being whores, so they get to do whatever.

I don't see how the "oh I wouldn't want to betray our friendship" thing would change if I asked him out directly rather than through a friend though. He could still assume I was just saying it to test him

if you weren't so content to perpetuate unfair gender standards by thinking women shouldn't have to ask men out.

Why do so many guys on here suddenly become feminists, but only when it comes to stuff that benefits them, while opposing it in every other situation?
He never had a problem with the idea of "seconds", he's someone who seems to genuinely think caring about someone's dating history is stupid. And he rejected me because he assumed I didn't really like him

He never had a problem with the idea of "seconds",

Anon Babble is dicks, but in anonymity there is wisdom.
men have a problem with this. it isn't sexist, it simply is.

while opposing it in every other situation?

Like what? A lot of us are pretty reasonable.

He never had a problem with the idea of "seconds"

He is 100% just being nice. If I was in his shoes and my high school crush would reach out to me years later, after leaving me in the dust and sleeping with other guys, I would not want her either, but I would obviously not want to break her heart, cause I obviously care about her, so I would never tell her she's a whore.

imagining the past decade

Geg

PLEAAE W8 A WILE BEFOR POSTING HEHEHEHAHAHHEHEHEHAHHAHAHEHEH

I had a body count in the double digits by the time I befriended him, and he knew this. It wasn't just rumors, I openly told him early on when complaining about how some other girls were bullying me over it, and he was very supportive. He'd also defend me when other people talked shit about me behind my back, and not in a way to just gain favor from me since he never actually told me about those situations (I heard about them from other people). When he told me friend he wasn't into me and didn't ask me out, I wondered if this was one of those things that he secretly did care about, but again, he knew from the start and still chose to be friends and then it turned out he was in love with me for years despite knowing that

It doesn't seem like he was bothered by it at all

Like what? A lot of us are pretty reasonable

Like with caring about woman's sexual history, for one.

I don't see how the "oh I wouldn't want to betray our friendship" thing would change if I asked him out directly rather than through a friend though

because how is he to know that your friend speaks for you at all? Did she explicitly frame it like "She told me to tell you that she likes you and would say yes"? She could just be talking out of her ass and making assumptions, as women often do (you)

Why do so many guys on here suddenly become feminists, but only when it comes to stuff that benefits them, while opposing it in every other situation?

That's a deflection, not a rebuttal. Whether I benefit from the viewpoint doesn't change whether it's a valid inconsistency. If your beliefs about equality only apply when they benefit women, and you dismiss criticism based on who is making it rather than what is being said, then you're not actually defending equality, you're defending a double standard.

Like with caring about woman's sexual history, for one

I fucking hate this shit that women and reddit cucks are always trying to normalize. No, it is not "insecure" to be grossed out that a women went and slept with a bunch of people, and nobody wants to be fucking settled for after you've gone and been ran through by anybody who would give you a crumb of attention. If it's no big deal, and sex doesn't mean anything, then surely it should be fine during the relationship as well, right? surely you and him both can be in a happy relationship going around fucking other people? You cannot say body count doesn't matter and it's just sex and then turn around and get upset about cheating.

Total chud victory, roastie btfo'd

you're digging this hole deeper and deeper.

fitting, really.

I never said anything about insecurity. It's just stupid to care anyway. And that makes no sense - the issue with cheating for most people is commitment. It makes sense to want someone who is in a relationship to be committed to you, and you to them. Having had previous relationships is irrelevant to that, obviously there's no expectation to be committed to someone before they are even with you. Why do you care that someone had sex in a previous relationship? Are you also bothered by them having a previous relationship at all even if it was sexless? Do you only want people who have no romantic experience at all?

It doesn't seem like he was bothered by it at all

Then what is the problem? He doesn't believe that you like him? Write him loveletters, send him nudes etc. I don't see the issue.

Like with caring about woman's sexual history, for one.

I don't care about a woman's sexual history unless she tries to date me. This is not a feminist take, this is a personal preference. I don't care how many dicks you suck, just stay away from me kinda deal.

2 females yappin itt

2025

Grim

Then what is the problem? He doesn't believe that you like him? Write him loveletters, send him nudes etc. I don't see the issue

He aggressively denied that I could like him, repeatedly, and insisted he deserves to be alone forever. He also said he hates the idea of being with me because I'm too good for him (his words, not mine) and that it's too scary and that while he has always been attracted to me, that he only ever wanted friendship. He refuses to see himself as a romantic option for anyone. I don't see how I can convince him otherwise.

This is not a feminist take, this is a personal preference

"Personal preference" isn't some magic shield that makes it outside the bounds of what feminism can care about. Taking issue with women's body counts is just messed up, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Why do you care that someone had sex in a previous relationship?

Why am I grossed out by feces, insects, and bad hygiene, even if technically I'm in a situation where there is no risk to my health? Gee, I don't know. Would you like to eat a pile of perfectly clean and sanitized shit? Biology has selected for certain disgust reactions and women with high body counts is one of them. Think of it like how women feel about short men or something. It's my personal preference. Most people don't want to feel so undignified as to traditionally court a woman who has freely given herself to other men in the past. Jumping through hoops that other men didn't have to, and for used goods. No thanks.

Biology has selected for certain disgust reactions and women with high body counts is one of them

Seems more like a matter of culture than biology. Ive known plenty of men who take issue with high body counts but also plenty who don't.

Think of it like how women feel about short men or something.

Honestly I've always felt like it was weird how some women care so much about height, and a lot of their explanations, stuff like wanting to feel small and protected and weak next to a big strong man, also felt rooted in sexist cultural attitudes and gender roles rather than anything biological, and also felt like things that are very much criticizable from the feminist perspective

My high school crush is and was shorter than me and I never cared in the slightest

Most people don't want to feel so undignified as to traditionally court a woman who has freely given herself to other men in the past. Jumping through hoops that other men didn't have to, and for used goods. No thanks.

One can have a relationship without "traditional courting", and it doesn't require a lot of jumping through hoops. It can just mean doing the same sort of basic formation of a relationship that someone before did. Also the idea that having sex with someone makes someone "used goods" is just dumb

Seems more like a matter of culture than biology

I mean, maybe sort of? You will also find cultures that are fine with eating each other or drinking piss, but it's not especially common. It's a biological thing that was reinforced by culture. Criticizing someone for being disgusted by high body count is just as stupid as criticizing them for any other technically irrational feeling of disgust that is more normalized like feces or insects.

Also the idea that having sex with someone makes someone "used goods" is just dumb

Not really. Everything that we as humans value, we do so because it is rare. That is how value is derived, and sex is no exception. When you go your whole life making sex with you not rare in the slightest, people are going to see it as less valuable. It's just how human brains work.

I don't see how I can convince him otherwise.

It's very difficult for someone who has been alone for their entire life to be around someone, let alone romantically. I suggest trying to be his friend first, becoming platonic friends again. If you truly care about him, you'd have no issue with him wanting to take things slow. Let him set the pace and don't push it. If you don't think you could be celibate for him for another 2-3 years, I suggest leaving him be and dating someone else.

>"Personal preference" isn't some magic shield that makes it outside the bounds of what feminism can care about.

Feminism has nothing to do with having high bodycounts? Are you tripping? Do you actually think the women from a hundred years ago cared about slutshaming?

inb4 BUT MEN DONT GET SHAMED

They do in my eyes. I shame my friends for being horndogs who sleep around too.

Taking issue with women's body counts is just messed up, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

I don't take issue. It simply conflicts with my morals, values and religious beliefs to have pre-marital sex. I have 0 issue with you living your life however you want to. Zero. I am not going to stop you from any decision you want to make. I am a very left-leaning liberal and think everyone deserves personal freedom. You are only angry at me for rejecting you as a potential partner.

Pretty based of him