Everyone is born guilty

everyone is born guilty

That sounds extremely jewish if you think about it

exomologesis "confession" "penance"

everyone is born guilty

everyone is born pure. the world corrupts. miscarried and aborted babies don't go to hell.

and other lies christcucks believe

born guilty

nope

born feeling guilty

probably

But didn't Jesus die for our sins, erasing our guilt?

His grace is sufficient for the all, but efficacious for few.

It was a mistake to allow the commoner to read the bible, should've been kept in latin

How very gnostic of you.
Someone doesn't know what the bible teaches.

The lies of the Dharmic religions is that you can find enlightenment within. But honestly Zizek is right, Christianity has a point, because when you look inside yourself, if you're really honest, what you're going to find is shit. Honestly the Christian theory of sin has a lot of empirical support. Look at how shitty humans are to one another. We literally commit genocides, exploit poor people, rape, embezzle, are extremely selfish, etc. People aren't good. People are selfish as fuck.

everyone is born guilty

Everyone is born pure, living in the material word that's inherently evil eventually turns us evil.

being blamed for something you didnt do

this is not how the law of identity works, if someone breaks a vase we cant just punish another person on the other side of the world for it. because that guy literally didnt do it, he didnt do anything.

I don't know what laws of logic have to do with this. This is an ethical and ontological theory. Adam's offspring are consubstantial with his nature, being new instantiations of it, and thus share in his guilt. Adam, being the first instantiations of human nature, actually wounded the essence he participates it, and thus basically ruined it for all of us. Human nature was created as a perfect reflection of its idea subsisting within God's mind, but it has defrauded, it has stripped the nature of its very divinity that it was first created with, and by extension, God's dignity who created it with the telos of total perfection in him. By defrauding our nature, and by defrauding God, Christ had to come into the world to repair it. To be both spiritual medicine for the damaged nature, and to make reparations on behalf of humanity for violating God's sense of justice. You should study Plato more.

what a very gnostic perspective you have.

i dont believe in kike myths bro
neither am i a neoplatonist
i hate plato, i prefer protagoras the sophist

This is mainstream Augustinian theology as found in Catholicism and Calvinism. There are slight differences between the two views, but this is the general outline.

I know that but you literally didn't respond to what I said at all. Which is pretty annoying.

would it be accurate to say christianity is a pessimistic religion? it sounds kind blackpillish

Answer me this, if you're preaching Catholicism, and in Catholicism; God created the world and declared it good in Genesis, how could humans be born guilty? If God is good, and God created a good (physical) world, how could humans be born guilty?
You're pushing Gnosticism, which says the physical world and bodies are evil, created by an evil lesser god, the Demiurge.

Because matter is good. Our maladies begin in the spirit, they bleed over to corrupt creation. Evil is a lack of goodness. It is a lack of God. It is a privation of being. But God permits it under his permissive will because out of it he can bring good.

And, where did the spirit come from? It comes directly from God. So, the spirit is good, the world is good, the physical form is good, how can a human be born guilty?

You are preaching Gnosticism by saying someone can be born guilty. To say that implies either that the soul is guilty, or the flesh is is corrupt. Which would mean it is created by a corrupt being. Which is the Demiurge.

You cannot be born guilty in Christianity. You can be born with the capability of being guilty, meaning you CAN sin. But sin is not implicit in you, because you are a child of God. And God is good.

jews have the highest iqs
they made up the bible themselves

Yes, the spirit is created good, but at the moment of its creation it is tainted with the corruption of original sin subsisting in human nature. It's not that hard to understand.

if the material is good and the spirit is good where does the bad human nature came from? the snake?

From original sin. Loss of original justice. Loss of original holiness. Damage to the human will. Disorders in the passions (faculties of the lower part of the soul i.e. the emotions). Sin both a sickness and a legal debt.

but at the moment of its creation it is tainted with the corruption of original sin

And you've stumbled onto the gnostic roots. You just said the world is corrupt, the world is not good. The world was not created by God, but rather, by the Demiurge who corrupted the world, making all things created within it also corrupted and implicitly guilty.

How could God's good creation, humans, which is filled with his good creation, spirit, when placed in his good creation, the world, lead to sin, which is bad?
It's not possible for humans be to implicitly guilty.

The world is good though. It was originally created good. But it has been corrupted through sin. It has become disordered, detached from what God intended for it to be. But he will redeem it, he will redeem all of creation including matter. This is the polar opposite of Gnosticism.

And where did that sin came from if all were good before?

How does sin manifest out of nothing?

From the misdirection of the will. Instead of tending itself toward the Good, the Beautiful, and the True, it chose to assent to another law, one contrary to nature. This is basic Thomism. Read Aquinas.

How can the will be tainted if it came from god?

It's the same exact thing Gnosticism says, just with slightly different wording.
You're just obfuscating the fact that you believe the world is corrupt from being created by the Demiurge by saying that it's "disordered".

The world is not disordered, it is good. People are not born with guilty souls, they are born with good souls.
The Demiurge did not create the world. Everything is as it should be.

The ability to sin is inherent to humans, due to free will. But the soul is born pure and good. Acting on freewill cannot be bad, because freewill itself is good. Because it too, was created by God. The soul cannot corrupt the world, Adam and Eve did not, and could not corrupt the world.
It's not possible.

What you are saying is the equivilent of saying "1 + 1 = -1".
Don't make no sense.

It didn't. It begins in the will of creatures when some object in the intellect presents some lower good to it that the will assents to contrary to reason. The ultimate etiology of sin goes back to Satan, who acted contrary to his nature as an angelic being who choose a lesser good (making himself equal to God) rather than a greater good (union with God). In the traditional myth of Genesis, it began with Adam choosing a lesser good (nourishing himself) over a greater good (eternal life). Not that these are 100% literal but they do convey real truths. But creatures sin when their will becomes contrary to God's will. All objects are in motion toward God, but when they sin, their path becomes diverted, just like the random swerves of the atoms of Epicurus.

I never once said the demiurge created the world. There is no "demiurge" as you conceptualize it. God, and God alone, created the world.

Because we have free will.

The ultimate etiology of sin goes back to Satan, who acted contrary to his nature as an angelic

How could he do that if god created him and free will was reserved for humans?

Angels have free will. Only Muslims think they don't.

so we have more agency than god does?

That is still doesn't explain why god creates imperfect beings and imbues badness in them

I didn't say you said that, I said you're obfuscating what your real beliefs are.

God is Good,
God created the world, which is good.
God created Humans, which are good.
God created a soul for humans, which is good.
God created free will for the soul, which is good.

Somehow, when God added all these things together, something bad happened, and broke the world.
Really, what you are saying is that, somewhere along the line, something wasn't good.
Which is the same as saying, the Demiurge created reality, and the reason original sin exists, is because the world is corrupt.
You are preaching Gnosticism. Or, what you are saying is that that Catholicism is just Gnosticism with the "Gnosticism" crossed out with a pencil and has "Catholicism" scribbled over it.

The ONLY way for humans to be born guilty is if they're born in a corrupted world. And that's what the Gnostics have proposed.

I'm really not you're just conflating beliefs.
No.

No, you're failing to follow the line of logic, and failing to engage with the argument I'm putting forward.

But, that's okay. I guess you weren't really trying to have a philosophical conversation.

No

Why tho, seems like your god is a pussy who can't prevent us from doing what we want

Gnosticism is a pseud-trap. It's safe to assume he's just getting things wrong.

No, you're committing basically the association fallacy. Are Jews following Islam because they also prostrate when they pray? No.

Jews following Islam

Yes semites are all the same

Even Jesus? Golly.

latin

Literally vulgar

The devil is the real accusor, you know, but never wants to be accused.
The devil is a shitskin.